Grand Theft Auto 5 is a Bad Game

By Drew Dixon

When I first became the editor-in-chief of GameChurch.com, I was convinced that the world didn’t need another game website with consumer-oriented game reviews. No one needs us to tell them whether or not a particular game is worth their money. There plenty of websites already doing that more efficiently. Instead, we asked our writers to explore the spiritual side of videogames. What do the games we play say about human nature, the world around us and our place in it? What value do the games they play add to their lives?

We were still technically posting reviews, but those reviews were distinct from those found at a typical videogame site. Initially, we included a numerical score in all our “reviews.” This was, in some sense, a way of throwing a bone to our readers who wanted clarity on the reviewer’s opinion of a game. In another sense, however, we saw it as a way for the writer to summarize a game’s cultural and personal worth.

Eventually, however, we started feeling weird about scoring games given the unique nature of our reviews. Like Jason Schreier of Kotaku we were convinced that review scores discouraged “nuance” and “criticism that strays from the norm.” We wanted GameChurch to be a site where people come to read such analysis–games criticism from a unique Christian perspective. We were determined not to undermine that perspective.

Grand Theft Auto 5 changed all that. If there ever was a time for GameChurch to quantify a game’s value with a number, it is now.

4/10

When I was 12 years old and my friends and I had just discovered alternative rock, we would play Offspring’s “Smash” over and over because it was the song with the most “bad” words. We would laugh at the line in Green Day’s “Basket Case” where Billie Joe Armstrong sang, “I went to a whore. She said my life’s a bore.” We drew comics about thugs who shot up strip-clubs and used an insane vocabulary of misogyny. When we went to the mall, we would dare one other to steal candy from the collectible card store. These things were hilarious to us.

Eighteen years ago I would have laughed at Trevor’s incessant penis jokes, Lamar’s stunted vocabulary, and Tracy’s naive sexual posturing. It is important to note, however that I would have laughed at these things not because they are actually funny but because I would have thought I was supposed to laugh at them.

A twelve year old should not be playing Grand Theft Auto 5.

grand_theft_auto_5_gta_v_05

GTA5 shines brightest during its heists, as these missions are the most elaborate, most likely to incorporate the game’s most impressive settings, and deliver the game’s most memorable moments. But the build-up to these missions is often excruciatingly boring–you go to stores and buy clothes, steal multiple slow vehicles with little-to-no resistance, and drive back and forth from the same location over and over.

GTA5 gives players more to do than any previous Grand Theft Auto game, but I never really found myself enjoying anything. I played tennis, watched a movie, played golf, watched television, invested in the stock market, raced jet skis, and rode roller coasters. I did these things because I assumed that their presence in the game meant that they would somehow add to my enjoyment. While racing cars and planes was pretty fun, the vast majority of these experiences add very little to my experience. My twelve year old self would have been impressed by this vast array of activities. My thirty year old self sees through the veneer.

I am told that GTA5 is a satire of the American Dream… kinda like GTA4 was satire of the American dream. Satire, however, generally has something to say. GTA5 makes fun of social media, videogame addiction, women, minorities, drug abuse, and promiscuity but it is never really clear whether the game has any goal in mind in doing so. Satire seeks to improve humanity by arousing our disapproval of an object or idea. GTA5 just wants us laugh at how misguided its black characters are, how annoying its female characters are, and how many penis jokes Trevor can recite.

gtavinnovates_2

Much has been said about GTA5’s misogyny. Chris Plante said that there were “more interesting female characters on Grand Theft Auto 5’s disc art than there are in Grand Theft Auto 5. Carolyn Petit called the game “profoundly misogynic”:

. . . GTA V has little room for women except to portray them as strippers, prostitutes, long-suffering wives, humorless girlfriends and goofy, new-age feminists we’re meant to laugh at.

Characters constantly spout lines that glorify male sexuality while demeaning women, and the billboards and radio stations of the world reinforce this misogyny, with ads that equate manhood with sleek sports cars while encouraging women to purchase a fragrance that will make them “smell like a bitch.” Yes, these are exaggerations of misogynistic undercurrents in our own society, but not satirical ones. With nothing in the narrative to underscore how insane and wrong this is, all the game does is reinforce and celebrate sexism.

Petit’s review, which was largely positive despite pointing out the game’s problems with women, was met with over 22,000 comments, the majority of which took issue with this section of her article. Commenters, most of which were male, called Petit names, dismissed her as a mere “feminist,” accosted her for giving the game a lower score than most other outlets (an impressive 9 out of 10), and accused her of devaluing games as an art form.

gta 5

It shouldn’t surprise us that a game with a largely male audience has large and vocal male support, but what should infuriate us is how recklessly GTA5 depicts women for a vocal male audience. GTA comes closer to reveling in the misogynistic undercurrents in American society than it does illuminating them. When a game devalues 50% of the population, that merits mentioning in a game review.

GTA5 isn’t particularly fun or funny. It is a well-crafted dumb action game in a long line of well-crafted dumb action games.

Written by Drew Dixon

About Drew

Drew Dixon is editor-in-chief of Game Church. He also edits for Christ and Pop Culture and writes about videogames for Paste Magazine, Relevant Magazine, Bit Creature, and Think Christian.

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  • Vic 2.0

    Agree wholeheartedly. This game was nice to look at, a bit of fun to explore, and then a massively boring disappointment after I realized this was the absolute best aspect of the game. Tons of great features/activities from previous GTAs are missing, and they made practically zero improvements in the gameplay itself. Everything (aside from graphics and presentation) that isn’t mediocre in this game… is just plain awful.

  • RebelMind

    I agree also. The whole problem with GTA V and many other games out these days is that instead of distracting us from reality, it seems like developers are trying to implement a fake reality through these games while brainwashing us to think its actually worthwhile to stare in front of a TV for hours on end murdering lifelike A.I. Sure you can create a pretty sunrise and sunset in a game, maybe have the A.I react like people, cars drive like cars, but then you realize that millions of dollars went into a virtual world where only death, robbery, and torture is all that its based upon. Question is why? People can’t even get real life jobs with these kinds of distractions, and then watching years pass by just so you can play in another fake world? I know life sucks, but it’s better then ignoring it today then watching it collapse tomorrow!

  • Roland

    No, really? You’re telling me it’s bad idea to purchase a rated-M game rated as such due to
    Blood and Gore
    Intense Violence
    Mature Humor
    Nudity
    Strong Language
    Strong Sexual Content
    Use of Drugs and Alcohol
    for my impressionable preadolescent nephew is a bad idea? Thank you for opening my eyes. Makes me wonder wonder if buying hi that playboy and six pack of budweiser last night was a bad call…

  • Roland

    Why do anything besides eat, sleep, and drink if that’s the case?

  • Bunny

    I am doing a speech tomorrow about how GTA is bad for you. Thank you for the info. Keep up the good work!!!

  • Anony M.

    Because there is something bigger than ourselves. We are so caught up in this mentality that once we’ve got our basic needs down, the next thing is material fulfillment. But all material fulfillment does is make you want more material fulfillment. There is a great sucking void in the heart of man, and since it never stops eating, only the infinite can fill it. That is where spirituality enters the picture.

  • Smith

    Actually the article seems to have a problem with the poor juvenile 4th grade humor. The game seemingly suggests that Trevor has raped Floyd Hebert and I believe Trevor states himself that he “sodomized” his hockey coach in a fit of rage.

    These are the problems. The game has racist, misogynistic and rape jokes. Hilariously enough, the game turns around and condemns anyone using the word “faggot” as it mocks stereotypes of races and women while it glorifies a rapist (Trevor) and attempts to make us feel for him. It’s sad that the developers of a masterpiece story such as Red Dead Redemption (which was meaningful) went into this tacky crap.

    It’s not the violence that’s even the problem. It’s the god-awful jokes (which became unfunny after 4th grade) and the over-reliance on penis and rape jokes.

    But apparently Trevor Philips is a “deeper” character than John Marston according to the GTA fan boys who won’t admit GTA V (while a good game) is also flawed. If anything was meaningful, it’s how the game parodied real life currently with all the social media garbage.

    “My twelve year old self would have been impressed by this vast array of activities. My thirty year old self sees through the veneer.

    I am told that GTA5 is a satire of the American Dream… kinda like GTA4 was satire of the American dream. Satire, however, generally has something to say. GTA5 makes fun of social media, videogame addiction, women, minorities, drug abuse, and promiscuity but it is never really clear whether the game has any goal in mind in doing so. Satire seeks to improve humanity by arousing our disapproval of an object or idea. GTA5 just wants us laugh at how misguided its black characters are, how annoying its female characters are, and how many penis jokes Trevor can recite.”

    This is where the review gets all these things spot on.

  • rahjee

    Shut up bitch.

  • rahjee

    Fuck you homo.

  • Vic 2.0

    Not gonna happen :)

    But did you actually have an argument, or did you just pop in to show the world how little authority you have with other people on the internet?

  • Vic 2.0

    Though I didn’t care for GTA 5 on any level, I agree with everything else. Very well said.

  • zahir

    me too

  • Freebird

    Thanks for you article. The game could have such potential with all the story lines, characters, etc. However, I find it offense as a woman that females are characterized in such a misogynistic manner. I also find the constant sexual language insulting. This is NOT a game for kids, for sure, and should not even be allowed in a household. If all men acted like these guys, it would be a sad world. Luckily, there are a lot of really great guys that treat women with respect and my hat goes out to you all!

  • Luke Han

    Satires only improves humanity and helps people if the people can read and understand it. The humour in the game seems to have blinded you and it is slightly irritating that it is only the penis jokes, among the multitudes of other jokes that would be funny to any normal human, are significant to you. What I see is GTA 5 revealing the deep pits of truths that most of us do not know: how similar the American government is compared to their terrorist counterparts, how similar large corporations are compared to the greedy fat kings in fairy tales, how there is really nowhere that is “safe” despite what the government proclaims to us, how useless the pursuit of money is, how realism can get you killed or can elevate you to a godlike position. To me, the jokes (yes, even the penis ones) enhance the message GTA V is trying to send. How do you know that Rockstar are not purposely portraying women the way they are in order to shed light on the issue not to support it?
    Ultimately, it is a case of how you conceive things. I perceive GTA V as a technically brilliant game (something we both agree on) with great revolutionary messages but has simply fallen into the common mistake of utilizing a aged formula of plot delivery.

  • Brendan Rea

    OK first of all about the penis jokes you can say their stupid and immature but you know who made jokes like that Shakespeare so what does say about the game, probably a lot but the game is magnificent and beautiful, you only say that the game is terrible because you probably hate great things because your’e self centered. The game is not for kids that is why it is rated M for mature.

  • bebo5

    I completed the game GTA 5.

    the game was not great.
    And no improvement on previous versions.

    The map was too Large , and actually very empty.
    And the character Michael was annoying.

    I give the game a 5.5

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    This is for all of you who complain about the inappropriateness of GTS5. GTA4 was a satire of the american dream, this game isn’t. This game is making fun of the united states in general, thats why all of the jokes are offensive, its because of Rockstar North (in Scotland) looking n at american stereotypes and using the game to point them out and make fun of them. GTA is meant to make fun of the US, i would say at times the game goes too far, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t appreciate all the jokes that don’t. If you cant laugh at it then this game is not marketed for you. Gameplay is where it truly shines but im not going to go on about that here.

  • kieran dyer

    gta 5 was really dissapointing the only good thing about it was the graphics. i dont like the fact that it is 3 characters. i think there should just be one player and you could upgrade him and do more stuff with your character.

  • kieran dyer

    Gta 5 was really dissapointing the only good thing about it was the graphics. I dont like the fact that it is 3 characters. I think there should just be one character and you could upgrade him and do more stuff with your him like go to the gym and go into more shops.

  • DAH-veed

    I don’t think anyone looks to GTA for actual social commentary. Everything is okay to make fun of in their games, no one is safe. The game has earned attention in the past because of it’s over the top humor (that apparently isn’t for everyone) and shocking amount of violence, sex, and drugs. I think the game was very well done and enjoyable to play through, and I think that Rockstar did evolve the gameplay from previous experiences. Take the scenery building of Red Dead Redemption, the driving mechanics of Midnight Club, and the additional aiming systems that gave it a more accessible interface and you have an improved experience over GTA IV. I do agree that with three protagonists there should have been a woman as a playable character, especially with the hot debate of gender equality (or lack there of) in video games today. That being said I’d stick with a 9/10 with the game because it really does have a lot to offer that, for the most part, is fun to do in a video game. My only problem is that none of the main characters are really that interesting or endearing and the narrative is a little iffy in cohesion, but I’ve never set out to play GTA for it’s story, but at least IV and V have one.

  • JustBeingHonest

    I’m not saying your wrong but could you be thinking too hard about it? I think they make you do all those random things to show all the new cars and things they included in the game. Im an artist so I see it as a good piece o work not calling it great. The map its self is just wonderful! The animals, the sunrise and when the night falls and everything is lite up its just amazing. Storyline wise there were alot of random stuff and i feel it could have even been longer the storyline about Trevor and Micheal was an great idea. I think they where only trying the show how the game can switch up and you get a full tour of the map mostly. I also believe they weren’t going for the best storyline but what their most know for races, shootouts, hoes and money. We cant bash a game because that’s what its about they weren’t going for fancy.

  • healer56heal

    2clickbait4me

  • Jus4000kicks

    Because we were made for so much more.

  • Jus4000kicks

    However, this review is about the value gotten from playing the game. Not how much fun you have or how good the graphics are. Does this game make you a better person? That is what this review is about – not whether it is a fun or well made game or not.

  • Jus4000kicks

    Yet again, though, this review is about the spiritual value gotten from the game. Has anybody here read the top portion explaining that?

  • Jus4000kicks

    He says the graphics are well done and that the game is well-crafted. Its not the technical issues of the game that are the problem but more the message of the game and how it does not contribute to making people better.

  • Jus4000kicks

    Maybe you should shut your mouth cuz there doesn’t seem to be anything good coming out of it.

  • THEBIBLEGANGBANGER_yolo

    bible bashing pussies

  • THEBIBLEGANGBANGER_yolo

    bible bashing bitches

  • THEBIBLEGANGBANGER_yolo

    biblleeeeeee gangggggg bannnngggeerrrssss!!!!!!!!!

  • http://stinkingooze.deviantart.com/ Didily Squat

    Maybe i’m too critical but.. No wait I am, brutally. This game was a total blast for me, all the way to the point when I realized, ‘hey I love seeing where the story goes with these missions, but I know I’ve nearly done them all.’
    This is something, like films, literature and other mediums that stop them from me giving a recommendation for full price. Nothing is a ‘Masterpiece’. Because if it is, I could complete, reset and do it again and again.
    This as I said, is a really good game until you beat it. But I shouldn’t have to feel like postponing the games story to try and keep it fresh.
    People dish out the old ’10/10′ or ‘MASTERPIECE!’ To carelessly, it leaves an impression on buyers.

  • lammmf

    what are you on about? I am a game designer for big companies and I 3d model games and I can honestly tell you, you need to grow up if you don’t like the game then don’t buy it there is 3 characters because a lot of people that buy action games are innovators and achievers and experiences and all 3 characters are tailored around these people so I can guess your non of these!

  • Danju Maharjan

    could you guys pass me those speech. i am writing a paper on that.

  • Brett

    My brother tells me all the time (Who himself is fairly devout as a catholic and i’m staring to lean a bit in to being glad i’m a catholic) that it’s upsetting how in the end the bad guys technically win. I mean all three of the main characters are as much antagonist as they claim all their enemies i.e. the police or merryweather to be. It kind of leaves you upset with the idea where’s the real happy ending. In my opinion however it seems possible that the characters do improve to some sense. Franklin is no longer some street gang thug who is in some car sales scheme. Micheal (Pardon if i spelled the name wrong) works over his family troubles and becomes a better husband and father. Trevor seems to show a light compassionate side however with him he’s still a psycho i don’t have very much sympathy for.

  • Pearce Latique Ishmael Fajardo

    While GTA 5 had alot of content in-game, I, also, thought the game was retarded. I’ve seen Rockstar do better (Max Payne 3, L.A. Noire, Red Dead)

  • Herold Dug

    fag

  • Herold Dug

    IKR

  • Herold Dug

    stfu

  • Vic 2.0

    No. But you can grow up if you like?

  • hhhamed

    I don’t play the mission cause I know there are many thing not good in it (I mean sexual things) but I just have fun with riding the car and helicopters

  • Clint Eastwood

    I realize this is very late, but GTA is made by Rockstar North, whereas Red Dead Redemption was made by Rockstar San Diego.

  • Clint Eastwood

    Shakespeare made penis jokes, but they were both mature and smart. It’s all in the execution.

  • gman

    I want to like this game because I am fascinated by the FPS aspects and actually do find value in simply immersing myself in virtual worlds… I love graphics/art and study graphic design. Plus it’s a valueable way to curb my boredom when my brain is tired of thinking so much from work.

    But wow… it just seems aimed at immature people. I’m a fan of irreverent humor but I want a little more in my life. This game just seems “too good to be true”. I feel slightly uneasy about killing any life in a game but shooters are the most fun games to me since they work a certain part of my brain (while relaxing other parts) that other genres don’t.

    But this all plays out like a wanna-be thug fantasy all around and I just can’t go there. I would like to try it just to experience the graphics and some of the good missions but I definitely will not be purchasing it. The last GTA game I played was vice city and that gave me my “fill” of the franchise.

    I’m looking forward to Witcher 3. While not quite my preferred play-style of first person I think it will be a much better and more rewarding experience than any GTA game, first person or third person. I have plenty of other FPS games that I’d rather replay (and a few I haven’t played yet) that can satisfy my desire of virtual first person immersion and fun shooting based gameplay until some new other FPS based games like Dishonored 2 get released.

    Also, about the driving bits of GTA… racing sims are MUCH superior as a means of feeling like you’re actually driving a car.

  • Nick

    I really didnt like gta v. I have the ps4 version now and beat the story mode again, and almost level 70 online, but I am going to sell the fuckin game soon because it is a bore and a disappointment and a smear on the gta franchise that used to be so good but is now a merely empty yet detailed map with absolutely nothing at all to do but drive around and shoot people. Very very boring. No premise. Story mode and dialogue is dry. No activities that are worth it, because WHO THE FUCK WANTS TO PLAY TENNIS OR GOLF OR DO YOGA?!?!??! NOT ME. And the online is the WORST online video game experience I have ever had. I had way more fun playing halo 2 live than this garbage. All in all gta v is the worst game I have every played and I am selling it. I suggest you do the same unless driving around a big boring empty map with nothing to do is fun to you, because that is not by any means fun to me. Very dissapointed in Rockstar. I thought they were pretty cool until they pumped this total shit game out of there assholes in a half assed manner.

  • Өнөрболд Жигмэддагва

    ahahaah i am 18 years old now and i played all gta from 11 years old nothing wrong happened to me. I am the one of the kid who understand the world better than other kids :))

  • Terry Mills

    It’s a game geared towards the male audience anyway. Women want to play GTA, they should be able to accept it’s overtones. Everyone knows that it’s not for the faint of heart, or easily offended! So If they have a problem with the satyre, and the “misogyny” (as if there’s no such thing as the misandry that’s in the real world, today.) go play candy crush on facebook or something. This game is for REAL gamers!

  • http://www.gaysex.com ILIKBUTTSEX

    This is a load of bollocks you guys need to stop giving me cancer every time I go on this stupid website.

  • Eternaldevastation666

    The truth hurts, doesn’t it?

  • Eternaldevastation666

    This comments section is a testament of how asinine gamers have become. GTA fanboys are no exception. They see Rockstar as this heaven-sent company that can do no wrong and would practically take a bullet for them. Even leaving their wives and children just to play GTA and feed their everlasting superiority complex.

  • Eternaldevastation666

    Rahjee has no taste in games, that or he’s probably a tween

  • Eternaldevastation666

    Don’t cut yourself on that edge bro.

  • Eternaldevastation666

    This comments section has granted a perfect amount of evidence. Good luck out there

  • Eternaldevastation666

    It’s like you were forced at gunpoint to read it…. Don’t like it then move on.

  • Eternaldevastation666

    I gave the game a 7 out of 10 when i first beat it on Xbox 360, then I gave it a 5 about a year later.. I didn’t realize what an abomination GTA V was until now. GTA fans, like lots of people said, have become general assholes. It’s like the kids from COD took over.

  • Luke Han

    Wow, that’s a very offensive, patronising generalisation. Aren’t you weary of who you’ll offend?

  • Eternaldevastation666

    Middle school children who probably should be doing homework instead of playing a 17+ game?

  • Eternaldevastation666

    And did you create 21 accounts to upvote your posts to make it seem like people agree with you?

  • Eternaldevastation666

    All that time I spent in GTA V could have been spent getting a girlfriend. I too regret playing. An actual girlfriend that is.

  • Luke Han

    That’s assuming middle school children have extraordinary powers of persuations and/or enough money to purchase the game, in which case I would think our middle school children no longer need manners if they can persuade their parents to buy them this or could earn enough money themselves to buy the game.

  • jonathan

    shut the hell up I agree with him ..

  • jonathan

    the game is a bad influence that’s 1. the activities are boring 2. the mission and heists are not enough choice or challenge 3. your mowing down civilians and killing police THAT is bad. maybe I don’t want to sit there watching t.v or playing sports maybe I want to use my gun on some bad guys. rockstar gta 5 is a mess flush it down the toilet. bad influence and all round boring.

  • Royce Bendix Ramos

    it is an obnoxious game. There must be a whole 8 hours of this game taken up by the word, ‘n—–‘, eye-clawing bitches ranting, doughboys crying… I dunno it’s just….obnoxious.

  • Tony

    This game was a huge let down. The gameplay is very boring. You can get bored very quick in a huge world. You collect all those stupid space ship parts and letters and everything for nothing but an achievement. No more hidden packages that give you rewards like guns at your hideouts. You can’t even save cars without them disappearing (no default anything including cars)

    Even the heists are disappointing since you only get paid for half of them. You do 3 of them for nothing.

    The idea of making money so hard to get in this game would have worked if they added the drug dealing mini game from Chinatown Wars or something similar. The handheld Chinatown Wars, made up for lack of money since you could easily go out on the street and make money dealing. Why even make Trevor this meth dealer if you’re not going to include this minigame? Such a missed opportunity.

    The characters are very boring and just unlikable. The entire storyline is terrible. As far as satire goes, I just don’t find it funny. I didn’t find GTA IV funny either. Most of the story line is Michael and Trevor in a male soap opera. Franklin is just the token black guy in the mix that stands out. And the drama is just stupid.

    The “special abilities” are worthless except for bullet time (which is needed in this game and should be for all characters). Michael has bullet time, which is useful considering how quick gun fights can kill you, Franklin’s driving abilities is not useful since cop chases always end with you dying in the driver’s seat from gun shots. Trevor’s “rage mode” I guess was inspired by Scarface The World Is Yours (A game that had a drug dealing minigame that they couldn’t include in this!) but at least in that game, the kills during rage mode restored your health, that don’t work when Trevor does it.

    GTA IV had terrible clunky mechanics and controls (especially the driving), but this game made it worse. At least in GTA IV, you don’t die in 5 seconds from a gun fight (and you can crouch down). In GTA V, however if get in a gunfight with the cops and you’re dead within 10 seconds. The cops are incredibly overpowered in this game. People talk about how “realistic this is” but being realistic don’t make games fun. Gone is the days of out running the 5 star wanted levels.

    Try to get in any gun fight. On Grove Street, the Ballas will kill you in less than 5 seconds if you attacked them. You can’t really do anything in this game without dying very quickly. The cops kill you so quickly, there is no point in messing with them.

    The one thing GTA IV has over V is the gun play. At least in GTA IV, I can actually see what I am aiming at, and the lock on works. In GTA V, if you’re not dead within a few seconds, the lock is slow and goes all over the place. If you wanted to, you can go through GTA IV with just the pistol doing head shots during missions. You obviously can’t on this game cause you get swarmed and aiming is so slow.

    I have played this game off and on trying to find it fun and I just can’t. It’s a big shiny toy. And Rockstar totally went over board with controversial stuff this time. I didn’t mind it prior to GTA IV, but that’s when they started to become annoying with it (seeing a naked guy in Lost and Damned, and all the over the top “titties” jokes). This game took it very over the edge. Dan Houser does not see women as useful as anything but stereotypical portrayals (just look at Red Dead Redemption and how useless Bonnie was without a MAN to help her, or the scene with the bouncing boobs where the guy is banging a girl over a table). Rockstar just don’t give a crap anymore. They didn’t give a fuck when they put a naked guy showing his private off in Lost and Damned. The controversy is just for sake. mean is there a real necessity with the stripper mini game and all the nudity?

    Instead of a stripper mini game, where is the drug dealing mini game so I can make some money? Or what about real mini games from previous installments in the series? Instead you get a mission with a torture mini game where the controller SHAKES when you snatch a poor guy’s tooth out of his mouth. Where’s the satire in that?

    I agree that the women on the disc art were more interesting than any female characters in this game, same goes for IV (and Red Dead Redemption). What is so useful about any of the girls in those games? One of the girlfriends in IV is made out to be a psycho stalker (and one is an FBI agent, oh how cute). Elizabetta is pretty cool until she gets arrested. In Red Dead, the wife of John is a former prostitute, yeah we get the point how much Dan Houser thinks of women. That’s ultimately the reason a female protagonist would never work with this series. How can it work? Rockstar’s depiction of women is that they are useless unless they’re taking their clothes of. Max Payne 3 even did this, when Sam Lake gave us Mona Sax who was an awesome female character.

    That reminds me, this game did not even have that many “ghetto” related missions, yet it managed to leave a bad taste in my mouth with Lamar’s terrible dialog and how stereotypical it is. San Andreas was bad with this too, but this game didn’t even have a number of gang related missions, and still you hear all the stereotypical ghetto talk that is very over done (listen to Lamar during missions and count how many times you hear the N word, and tell me it’s not overdone). Minorities as a whole in this game are portrayed very poorly.

    GTA no longer what it used to be. I would rather go play Chinatown Wars, the handheld on the DS that people bitched about cause the graphics are cartoony and it had top down perspective (at least I can see what I’m aiming at in that, unlike GTA V!). It at least had fun gameplay that was rewarding. The other handheld games (Vice City Stories and Liberty City Stories) also had better gameplay than this (you could actually get in police chases back then and not die in 5 seconds!). GTA III still has more replay value than this game.

    This game is just not that good. No matter how hard I try to like it, I just get turned off more. The most work they put into was the graphics. The storyline is terrible, the gameplay is awful…the radio stations are actually well done with a variety of great selections for each genre (The Lowdown, the Space Funk channel, and the Non-Stop Pop Channel were my favorites)

  • Vic 2.0

    Ok, so do YOU have an argument to anything I’ve said, or are you just agreeing with “Shut up, bitch” like a toddler throwing a fit because your mommy said no more candy? Just curious.

  • Vic 2.0

    Wow! Absolutely agree, particularly about how they essentially traded fun gameplay for “shock value”. And I would also say that the whole “It’s more realistic” defense don’t fly, so long as you can flip over your wrecked car by staying seated in the car and moving the analog stick around!

  • Vic 2.0

    The cure for the beautiful boredom that is GTA 5… lies in Just Cause 2.

  • Vic 2.0

    IMO, best open world game “like” GTA is Just Cause 2. But if you enjoyed GTA: Vice City, you might give GTA: San Andreas a try. That’s unless you don’t want ANYTHING to do with the whole gang and thug angle.

    Also, I agree with you about when you just want to race/drive around, playing a racing sim instead. Forza Horizon 2 is not quite a simulator, but it is my favorite game for scratching that particular itch 😉

  • Vic 2.0

    I play video games to get AWAY from all the most annoying and depressing features of the real world, not to get a double dose of it.

  • Vic 2.0

    100% agree. Graphics and presentation were awesome, but the gameplay was just pathetic. I don’t guess they’re ever going to fix their free-running and jumping, hand-to-hand combat, but they could’ve at least kept all the great things that were in previous GTAs (e.g., San Andreas) in this one! Gang wars, jetpacks, tanks that were actually worth a damn, buyable safe houses, nitrous and hydraulics in vehicles, etc.

    But alas, they had to make room for the yoga, mundane stock market, and stripper mini-games.

  • CR7

    Shut That shit up its a fucking game pussy

  • Vic 2.0

    Wow, what a counterargument.

  • raiyan76

    man this reviewer is a noob…………..confirmed……more than 1 billion copies of this game was sold in maybe 3 days..damn website.!!!!!!!!!!

  • raiyan76

    thats why it is rated 18 plus.

  • Vic 2.0

    None of this makes a good argument. And who cares about how many copies it sold? All that means is that it was hyped (in this case, OVERhyped) like crazy.

  • mrpete987

    interstingly enough those are all made from different teams than the one that makes grand theft auto.

  • Vic 2.0

    I’ve seen them do better as well (GTA: Vice City, GTA: San Andreas)

  • Guest

    San Andreas was the truth

  • Vic 2.0

    Why did my comment get deleted? All I said was that I’ve seen Rockstar do better than GTA 5 as well, with San Andreas and Vice City being examples of that.

  • Pearce Latique Ishmael Fajardo

    that’s weird, I just seen it a day ago…

  • Vic 2.0

    Thanks for confirming I’m not crazy! Hehe. BTW, I also recall there being other replies to you that were deleted. Something is definitely wrong here. Oh well.

  • Grant Sheppard

    GTA V is like a mirror. The only reason people don’t like what they see and hear is because its resembles truth. Women nowadays are shady, don’t have no self respect, out for status and money instead of realism (Amanda). How many Desperate Housewives, Devious Maids or Sex in the City women are out there now? People do the craziest things then put it on youtube hoping to get famous, teens get drunk drinking themselves to death, they practice unsafe sex and have orgies (Tracy). The american dream is one big farce! (Trevor) Don’t blame GTA V for the choices people are responsible for. Los Santos is the world we live in, whether you admit it or not. See, that to me is the biggest problem, we are blind to the truth even when truth is looking us right in our eyes!

  • Vic 2.0

    I think people knew the world was fucked up before GTA 5 came along…

  • Daniel Schmuhl

    I agree.It’s just not very fun period, most of the added activities/features are boring. What happened to vigilante missions, buying property, gang wars? Towing cars, yoga, tennis, etc are all super boring.
    The police can kill you very easily, they can snipe me to death with a pistol from a moving police car doing 150 mph. They can be alerted really easily too and when they show up it’s like an instant 2 stars. Hiding usually doesn’t work because they can almost always find you. The helicopters are infinite and respawn very fast right on top of you which makes them a pain. This ruins a lot of the fun in free roam.
    The vehicles all control like something out of an arcade game. The hand to hand and shooting sucks.
    Game is just awful to play, and I haven’t even brought up the online.

  • Grant Sheppard

    Uhuh, thats why its so fucked up!

  • Vic 2.0

    Forgive me, it seemed like you were saying GTA 5 was a good game because it enabled people to realize how fucked up the world was.

  • https://www.youtube.com/user/MrVertical99/ xMagnus99

    The graphics in GTA V is shit compared to other games from 2015

  • Pearce Latique Ishmael Fajardo

    fug it.. but yea San Andreas was my fave GTA

  • Aname Goeshere

    I don’t think you understand what a “REAL” gamer is.

  • Vic 2.0

    Even if I were a total sexist pig and hated women with a passion, I wouldn’t care for GTA 5, as the gameplay is rather boring. But how do you take “This game is misogynistic” to mean “There is no such thing as misandry”?

  • Gabriel “DruidNature” Reitzel

    The reasons you list are the main reasons I was going against buying this game, Though my friend literally bought it for me….he wants to “prove” That the game’s not as bad as the reputation has made it over the past 10 years.

    I figured I’ll give it a shot and see, I just hope it’s nothing like i’ve been hearing… if it has any of this *Hello delete local files*

  • Vic 2.0

    You could also just research whatever you’re wanting to know about it? I’m sure you could find footage of the stripper minigame as well as the overly explicit dialogue for when you hire a prostitute, etc. without having to actually play the game.

  • Vic 2.0

    I agree with you on the whole misogyny thing, but I also find GTA 5 offensive just as a GAMER. I mean seriously, am I not supposed to notice, because everything looks great graphically, that soooooo many fun features/activities have been inexplicably removed from the series and replaced with yoga and golf?

  • Joel Andersson

    Not everyone is that stupid or vain…

  • Joel Andersson

    It actually was kind of good in the end but still prefer the likes of Red Dead Redemption lightyears more than this game. The aforementioned (Red Dead) is Rockstars definite shining star and one of the best games ever made! This game, when all is said and done, actually only just makes the cut for – despite it all – a good game.

  • Vic 2.0

    Who knows! But I would rather think rahjee WAS that stupid or vain, as to upvote his own masterpiece “Shut up bitch”, than to think there were actually 22 people who thought that comment was worthy of praise.

  • Vic 2.0

    That’s funny, because it’s actually the gameplay that turned me off of this one. Though the “jokes” do tend to go overboard (GTA is the Tom Green of the video game world), it’s the gameplay that just bored me to tears. Had a lot more fun with Just Cause 2, plus I didn’t have to lock myself away from my family just to play it!

  • Vic 2.0

    What did they say that wasn’t “grown up”?

  • Vic 2.0

    You’d have a lot more fun with Forza Horizon 2 and Just Cause 2, in that case.

  • Vic 2.0

    I’ve never understood the claim/feeling that GTA 5 was an improvement over the rest of the series. All it has improved on is graphics. Compare it to the obvious: San Andreas had gang wars, actual gambling in an actual casino, more enterable building, more buyable safehouses, a slightly better story, a far better soundtrack, police missions, ambulance missions, firefighter missions, the ability to aim before shooting while driving, more manageable cops, a better tank, a jetpack and I’m quite certain I’m still leaving something out! GTA 5 may have more activities available, but there’s really little FUN to be had with any of them when you look at it.

  • Vic 2.0

    Indeed. This commenter didn’t even RESPOND to that aspect of the game, only vaguely referenced it.

  • Vic 2.0

    Alternatively, you can ask yourself why the truth is so offensive to you?

  • Vic 2.0

    What do you mean by “I am one of the kids who understand the world better than other kids”? And do you really attribute this to Grand Theft Auto?

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    Well while most people would disagree on that point I respect your opinion about the gameplay, I think its a very subjective category making it especially hard to debate. The appropriateness of the game is a different matter, and that’s what I meant to confront with my post regardless of gameplay the game is satire not intentionally discriminatory, and has done more good than bad. I actually found just cause 2 far more dull, the large-scale action provided less variation, and general entertainment. Calling gta5 a “dumb action game” is ridiculous and I challenge anyone to find many “smarter” action games. Just cause is a “dumb action game”, but it revels in that, and that by no means degrades the quality of the game.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    Your bad at the game, you missed the satire, you’re wrong about ghettos, I can’t see what more you expect from the characters, half your complaints are difficulty which is certainly not agreed upon by the community, the driving is actually less realistic and punishing than in gta4, its a huge improvement and I’m sorry about how incorrect you are.

    My apologies if this comes off as rude and offensive, but I read your entire post and I find almost everything you said to be wrong. I realize it is mostly opinion based but what parts of it can be “quantified” (for lack of a better word) point towards you being wrong

    I don’t have the time (and its not worth it) to type out a direct reply to every one of your arguments, but if you feel any of its is especially true I will happily debate that with you.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    Its actually less realistic because the community responded negatively to the “over” realistic vehicle control in gta4. In response they changed the driving to a mix between arcade style and realistic.

    The difficulty spike your mentioning is probably a competent police force, there were huge AI improvements from gta4, but in my opinion this is were difficulty should increase. The arcade influenced driving is better than gta4’s uber-realistic because its a game and the difficulty shouldn’t come from hard to use mechamice. That last sentence wasy opinion, don’t want to infer I’m claiming that’s fact

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    That’s a nice opinion

  • Vic 2.0

    Which point do you think most people would disagree with? That one shouldn’t play it in front of their kids? Because I can’t picture most parents being okay with their kids hearing the language, seeing the nudity and all that stuff. I also don’t see what the “satire” has accomplished, because it’s not like there’s any clear MESSAGE being conveyed. Only thing that’s clear is what’s being thrown up on the screen, and that’s just a bunch of senseless violence (like the torture mission) and over-the-top sexuality (like the stripper mini-game and explicit voiceovers for the prostitutes).

    While Just Cause 2 had fewer separate activities, the ones it did have were fun and stayed fun a lot longer than the plethora of mostly boring activities (e.g., yoga, golf, tennis, the stock market) in GTA 5. This is of course subjective, but how anyone can think the stuff you can do in GTA 5 is more exciting than the stuff you can do in JC2 is beyond me.

    Also, I really think the only thing that wasn’t “dumb” about GTA 5 was the technical achievement of how absolutely gorgeous it all looked. But as a game, it fell short, IMO. Too many awesome features/activities from previous GTAs taken out, too many boring activities added, and practically no meaningful improvements in gameplay.

  • Vic 2.0

    Well I know for a fact that even a lot of FANS of the game agree the cop system is broken. And neither their being psychic nor their trying to kill you for honking your horn or accidentally bumping into an NPC is realistic. Also, I didn’t mention the driving CONTROLS; I was talking about how you can magically flip a car back onto its wheels without even getting out of the thing. These are reasons why “It’s more realistic” just isn’t a very believable defense. Not that realism should ever take a front seat to the fun factor anyway.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    Those who claim the driving is more realistic are wrong, but i do believe it is better. GTA4 driving IS more realistic, this is why i said it was worse, it punished you s if it were a driving simulator. I have to disagree with what you said about the cops, at levels 2 and 3 I’ve found it completely possible to hide from the police, and an actual car chase can be very difficult. I don’t see why you would call them “psychic”. At levels 4 or 5 it is VERY difficult but these levels you have to activly achieve so its a fair trade, the lower levels you can hide in alleyways or otherwise but if you intentioanlly shott cops then it gets far more difficult and i think this is fair.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    This has really turned me on to how subjective this really can be, i found the just cause 2 activities became dull and reppetetive quickly while the gta5 ones really had alot of “flavor” and variety that livened up the game. I was saying alot of people really enjoyed the game and found it fun, not that it was appropriate content for younger audiences.

    As far as it being satire. Gta5 brought far more discussion, and passionate debates than any activist group or most protests. While it may lack a specific point it still confronts issues. The game may be offensive, but it brings those issues to light rather than avoid them. It’s not as if the developers were closeted racist, sexist, misogynistic assholes. It was an all encompassing satirical “remake” or popularized american culture. It was outsiders (Made in Scotland) looking in at what america can look like from the outside. It surely didn’t bring any new revelations but it encouraged disscusion of existing public issues.

    The torture went to far, and Rock star publicly apologized, i agree with you on that. The strippers were certainly extreme and i can see how many people see that as going to far, i’m not defending Rock star but strip clubs and prostitutes have been a staple of the gta series and not including them would have outraged VERY many fans. Did they take it too far? Possibly, and they’d have been fine not taking it as far as they did.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    I am commenting from my experiance with the most recent next gen realease, i dont remeber much from when i played on the 360, but it should be judged for the most recent and updated version not the outdated one

  • Vic 2.0

    I’m not saying they’ve claimed the DRIVING is more realistic. I’m referring to how they try and excuse the broken cop system with “It’s more realistic!” That doesn’t fly, because if they can make it so you can flip your car back onto its wheels magically, then obviously realism is not all that important to them after all. So another defense of the police being so difficult is needed. But then again, don’t bother, because they’re also psychic and attack you for the dumbest reasons. “Realism” just will not work.

    I call them psychic because, as we all know, you can snipe a guy from really far away with no one else in sight and the cops will still magically find you. That’s neither realism nor fun; it’s just broken.

    Also, I didn’t imply that you can’t LOSE the cops, just that they shouldn’t be after you for things like honking your horn in the first place. All in all, I was much less inclined to go out and start trouble with the cops or anyone else than I was in previous games. And it wasn’t that the previous games were too easy; it was that the cops in this one were just unbearable for me altogether.

  • Vic 2.0

    It DOESN’T actually confront any issues. It only portrays them. To confront them, they would need to make a statement about them in the game, which they never did. Unless you consider the way different types of PEOPLE are mocked, “confronting the issue”, but really it’s just ridiculing people and avoiding the issue itself altogether.

    No. They don’t deserve any credit here. To be helpful, one must report each side of the argument in a balanced way, not just mock the side you (may or may not, it isn’t clear) disagree with.

    “The torture went to far, and Rock star publicly apologized, i agree with you on that. The strippers were certainly extreme and i can see how many people see that as going to far,”

    I’m surprised you agree. It’s refreshing to find someone who can admit to flaws in something they like. But of course, I will continue to criticize Rockstar for all these things they DIDN’T apologize for, because these things are not only morally questionable but competing with gameplay for effort from the devs as well.

    “i’m not defending Rock star but strip clubs and prostitutes have been a staple of the gta series and not including them would have outraged VERY many fans. Did they take it too far? Possibly, and they’d have been fine not taking it as far as they did.”

    That’s all I was saying. I’m fine with sexual humor if it remains so that you can actually see the “humor” part. But when you just saturate it all in sexuality, no honest person is going to label “Cum on my face” joke of the year… Well, not without beginning it with “If I owned a race horse, I’d name it ‘my face’, just so all the women in the stands would be shouting….” 😉 Scenes where two people go behind a dumpster and then emerge buttoning up their pants can be funny. Scenes in which you actually see them having sex… are not.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    OK your argument wasn’t completely clear to me, I understand your point about the cops finding you even if you use silenced weapons or are far away, this I’ve been particularly dissapointed about. In my experience though.

    I certainly understand your and many others anger with the cops, while I don’t have too big of an issue with them I understand that many do.

    Actually a difficulty slider would benefit this game a lot, casual players or those who didn’t want to mess too much with the police could turn it down. People who wanted a real challenge, or intended to play against the cops could turn it up, and the median in between.

    I agree the cops are touchy but I think if they were easier to evade, or willing to just write you a ticket (like in mafia 2, one of the best games ever made), that would dilute this problem.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    Think we’re arguing over the definition of satire not the effects the game brought. Not now but at its release gta5 sparked many more meaningful debate and discussion (over a broad spectrum of problems). These discussions educated those that didn’t know these problems existed, but more importantly it did its part in making public america face these issues (thanks Scotland).

    It can be offensive and inappropriate but also remember these are not free indie developers. These developers have a CFO that has requirements, and Fun will always come first. Being forced into thoughtful evaluation is not a “fun” experience (at least not for many people).

    I for one applaud the entire Grand Theft Auto series for its crass and offensive humor, edgy content, and risking to go terribly too far. I like to believe I’m not a blind fan boy, for the game has many faults, but it also has more than enough spectacular to make up for itself

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    No. They don’t deserve any credit here. To be helpful, one must report each side of the argument in a balanced way, not just mock the side you (may or may not, it isn’t clear) disagree with.

    This is untrue in much popular satire, often in family guy, south park, especially the Colbert report.

    That’s how you make a meaningful/well thought out argument with satire hardly ever does, and at least modern satire isn’t made to do that

  • Vic 2.0

    Well it would help a lot, sure. But that’s pretty much my overall complaint, that Rockstar doesn’t seem to care about improving gameplay as much as the graphics and attempts at shock value. I have to acknowledge that they also tried to have a better-written story this time around, and the script itself is okay but I still think it’s a pretty weak story and I’d rather have no story at all than one that falls flat.

    One example of their disinclination to actually IMPROVE gameplay is something I don’t actually even care that much about but remains stuck in my head anyway. Did you play San Andreas? If so, you might remember thinking “I got myself a girlfriend? Sweet! And I can take her out on dates? Even sweeter!” I think most of us thought that, anyway, until we realized we’d be getting pestered by her and those little notifications that our relationship bar with her was going down because, you know, we wanted to do something ELSE every now and then! So people of course complained about the obligations and constant reminders to take their girlfriends out in a GTA game. How did Rockstar respond? By removing the GIRLFRIEND but keeping the obligations and reminders, in GTA 4, with that guy you had to take out for dinner all the time. Swing and a miss!, I would say.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    I did play gta4, and taking your damn friend out to do stuff was the most annoying thing. I realize they should have recognized this from San Andreas, but it was improved upon in gta5 (businesses not friends, fun missions, no backlash).

    I have to disagree with you overall complaint, but i think that’s just because i enjoy the game play tremendously. When they changed the driving system, when they made the police have SOME intelligence, all of the game better in my opinion (just to name a few). If you didn’t enjoy the game play then the rest of the game is going to naturally fall apart.

    Also the story was freaking awesome, In AAA videogames you have to write a story that fits with constant car chases, gunfights, and the like. Look back over the story and see how much it catered to the game play without losing its own charm. I think people expect drama movie type story lines from videogames, but the truth is story is the mediums greatest weakness. The nature of videogames is that their stories have to come from the constant action (like an action movie), and this means their stories are essentially action movie stories. For an action movie gta5 had an amazing story line and that’s how action based games stories should be judged.

  • Vic 2.0

    This is all very ridiculous. Maybe KIDS playing the game were suddenly made aware of these problems which the rest of the world already knew about. But if what you’re saying was their goal, releasing a game kids could actually BUY would’ve been much more effective, not to mention releasing one that didn’t have all that other garbage in it. Somehow, I don’t think GTA 5 was trying to make the world a better place. Maybe that’s because, again, it wasn’t actually satire because they didn’t even attempt to make a point. And in any case, making the point (and making it clearly) would’ve been a far better swing at these issues than a game that seems only to be making LIGHT of it all. That’s not encouraging anyone to change anything, except maybe how inclined we are to just laugh at problems rather than fix them.

    “These developers have a CFO that has requirements, and Fun will always come first. Being forced into thoughtful evaluation is not a “fun” experience (at least not for many people).”

    That reasoning might work, if not for things like the torture mission. I don’t think you are adequately representing what was going through their minds when they made this game. A noble point of view perhaps, but I see no reason to believe it was Rockstar’s point of view at all.

    Much more likely they were just trying to shock people, and they apologized because more than 49% of the people expressed concern over this one thing.

    Whatever the case, just pointing to an issue doesn’t earn you respect, if it’s unclear (however accidentally) whether you think it’s an actual problem or not in the first place.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    To begin with you addressed the point which i said was less important and didn’t acknowledge my main argument. You repeat how satire has to have a pint, instead of actually looking at the effects the game has made. Effects which i have explained multiple times and been completely disregarded or ignored.

    Of course shock value is part of the game, this is obvious, but saying this is bad for the game or has no positive social effects is outrageous. If you feel uncomfortable or “sick to your stomach” it’s because your facing something that is offensive, and its offensive because of REAL issues which it brings to light.

    Your ignoring my point about the game. It takes existing social issues and forces us to face them, and see them in our daily lives. You simply throw around “shock value” like its a cheap marking tactic and sure it is but it also has more positive effects than you refuse to accept.

  • Vic 2.0

    “I did play gta4, and taking your damn friend out to do stuff was the most annoying thing. I realize they should have recognized this from San Andreas, but it was improved upon in gta5 (businesses not friends, fun missions, no backlash).”

    You’re missing the point. The problem is that they removed the wrong thing. When people complained about being obligated to take C.J.’s girlfriend out in SA, instead of IMPROVING the girlfriend idea, they just threw it away. And they threw away a ton of other cool ideas and fun activities from that game as well, likely for the sake of graphics and/or story.

    “I have to disagree with you overall complaint, but i think that’s just because i enjoy the game play tremendously. When they changed the driving system, when they made the police have SOME intelligence, all of the game better in my opinion (just to name a few). If you didn’t enjoy the game play then the rest of the game is going to naturally fall apart.”

    Well I think giving the cops more intelligence was a bad thing CONSIDERING that they hadn’t fixed any of the issues that had been giving the cops already frustrating advantages since GTA 3. Cops are psychic (as we’ve discussed) and they start trying to kill you for things they shouldn’t even be CHASING you for. But like with the dating thing, they figured they would avoid these issues and just add more details so people can ooh and ahh at the “realism”. So we basically have unrealistically powerful and aggressive police… given more intelligence. That, in a nutshell, is why so many people complain about it (and that includes GTA fans and/or people who enjoyed GTA 5 as a whole).

    “Also the story was freaking awesome, In AAA videogames you have to write a story that fits with constant car chases, gunfights, and the like. Look back over the story and see how much it catered to the game play without losing its own charm.”

    That’s not enough to make the story itself awesome, in my book. You also need characters with character archs, events that matter long-term, etc. As another poster here said, everyone is essentially the same as they were when they started.

    “I think people expect drama movie type story lines from videogames, but the truth is story is the mediums greatest weakness.”

    I only expect drama movie type story lines from games that try to be dramatic (which doesn’t necessarily mean serious or sad) and like a movie. GTA 5 is very much this! And that’s why I say it “falls flat”, because it sets us up for a very dynamic story in that opening scene and never actually follows through with it.

    Also, I think even a good action movie should have characters (preferably the main characters) who learn important lessons and change accordingly. Yes, this means I’m saying not a lot of action movies are GOOD movies; and no, that’s not just so I can criticize GTA 5 😛

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    My first point is that they failed to improve upon it in gta4 but they did improve upon it in gta5.

    The police only make up part of the game play, and even if you don’t enjoy them there is plenty more content, we also disagree pretty strongly on the cops. When you say they are psychic I only see this coming up in a few niche situations and don’t know what your referring to. Also unrealistically powerful? I would agree the game need difficulty adjustment, i would have enjoyed it far less if the police were easier to escape (like in JC2), but I also see how many people disagree with this.

    Gta 5’s characters are dynamic, they have personality, and are all interesting. Alot of people agree with me and alot of people saw this, but i think you missed it because you didnt enjoy the gameplay.

    It is an action game, its cinematography with graphics, cut scenes, and music is amazing but it IS an action game. Remember when you were catching michaels son off the back of a boat on the freeway or all the hiests all over the story.

    Gta5 doesnt try to be “dramatic” in the way you describe it it, what it tries to do is combine as meaningful a storyline with really good gameplay and missions. In that regard id say it is successful.

    Just out of curiosity what games would you say have “good” stories? Indie titles are fine, but that’s easy and im more interested in large releases with good story line. (and don’t say JC2 :P)

  • Vic 2.0

    Again, I’m saying to be HELPFUL you need to present and counter the opposite viewpoint. You may very well convince people your side is right by employing satire in this way (known also as the fallacy of appeal to ridicule), but they won’t know how to actually DEFEND this argument (which may indeed be wrong to begin with) when face to face with substantial opposition, as in a formal debate, especially when it comes to making and changing laws. Rockstar fails miserably here, if indeed that is their objective.

    Now, to be SATIRE, you are correct that one doesn’t have to present the other side’s argument. But again, just making fun of people is not satire either. There needs to be a message, and it’s safe to say one has to make an assumption to find any “message” in GTA 5’s comedy. Until one is established, though, it’s just comedy, with no deeper meaning. Or else, it’s indistinguishable from such comedy.

    And comedy for its own sake it fine, but people reserve the right to ask whether that brand of comedy is justified. And that’s where we’re at, with GTA 5.

  • Vic 2.0

    “My first point is that they failed to improve upon it in gta4 but they did improve upon it in gta5.”

    They improved upon what, exactly? All they did was take it out altogether! Again, I’m referring to the fact that it all started with a cool idea (having a girlfriend you can date), people complained about one feature of the original idea in SA, and then Rockstar took out the wrong feature before taking it all out instead of actually improving it.

    “The police only make up part of the game play,”

    The police are very central to what makes GTA appealing in the first place. That’s why people complain about it, because that’s what they used to enjoy about the franchise – messing with the cops!

    “When you say they are psychic I only see this coming up in a few niche situations and don’t know what your referring to.”

    Well this depends on style of gameplay, I guess. But the whole sniping someone from far away was only an example. In general, cops just find you way too quickly when you try to do anything illegal.

    “Also unrealistically powerful? I would agree the game need difficulty adjustment, i would have enjoyed it far less if the police were easier to escape (like in JC2), but I also see how many people disagree with this.”

    I would attribute this to style of play as well. The reason they are easier to escape in JC2 is that they wanted to encourage the player to just go crazy, pick a fight with the enemy soldiers, etc. What’s great about Just Cause 2 though, is that if you want it to be extremely difficult you can:
    A. Change the difficulty setting.
    and B. Restrict yourself with rules such as “Don’t use the grappling hook while in combat”

    In GTA 5, you’re just restricted and there’s nothing you can do about it except either not start trouble with the cops or start working on your escape early.

    “Gta 5’s characters are dynamic, they have personality, and are all interesting. Alot of people agree with me and alot of people saw this, but i think you missed it because you didnt enjoy the gameplay.”

    ‘Interesting’ is subjective. So I didn’t MISS that they were interesting, I just found them NOT interesting. Except of course for Trevor, but again that does not mean the story itself was any good.

    I don’t recall denying that GTA 5 is an action game, so I don’t know where you going with that paragraph.

    “Gta5 doesnt try to be “dramatic” in the way you describe it it, what it tries to do is combine as meaningful a storyline with really good gameplay and missions. In that regard id say it is successful.”

    But what makes the storyline meaningful? That’s the question. We are of course bound to disagree about the gameplay, but we can at least work on establishing objective facts regarding one or the other.

    “Just out of curiosity what games would you say have “good” stories? Indie titles are fine, but that’s easy and im more interested in large releases with good story line. (and don’t say JC2 :P)”

    Not at all. But the difference between JC2 and GTA 5 is that the former doesn’t even try to have a story whereas the latter, IMO, has one but it’s not any good. And while I always judge a game by gameplay first, it does help knowing how exactly to take it from start to finish.

    Good stories? Far Cry 3, Assassin’s Creed 2, FFs 7 and 8 to name a few. And it’s because each of them actually made me CARE about what was going on, with character arcs and events that, you know, mattered.

  • Vic 2.0

    “To begin with you addressed the point which i said was less important and didn’t acknowledge my main argument.”

    I’m acknowledging everything you say, just not agreeing with it.

    “You repeat how satire has to have a pint, instead of actually looking at the effects the game has made.”

    Not true, I’m taking on BOTH claims. I reject the claim that it’s satire because there is no clear point to the comedy (which defines satire exactly), and I reject the claim that the game has had any positive effect along the lines of today’s more relevant issues whatsoever for reasons I elaborated earlier and will elaborate below.

    “Effects which i have explained multiple times and been completely disregarded or ignored.”

    This is not true at all. I DID address your claim that GTA 5 has made people more aware of today’s relevant issues, by saying that maybe KIDS would need to be informed of it but the rest of us are already aware. It’s not like GTA 5 specifies real-life times, places, and people in order to actually educate us about which events are taking place in real life and which are being made up by the writers of the game. This is an entirely unsupported claim, sorry.

    “Of course shock value is part of the game, this is obvious, but saying this is bad for the game or has no positive social effects is outrageous.”

    I didn’t quite say THAT, but I did question whether or not it had any, especially the positive social effects you’re claiming it has had.

    As for what’s bad for the game, that’s subjective. Not outrageous at all. Maybe if they haven’t been removing so much GAMEPLAY content from the series while increasing “shock value” I wouldn’t have any reason to complain. But they HAVE been removing content which we have already talked about.

    “If you feel uncomfortable or “sick to your stomach” it’s because your facing something that is offensive, and its offensive because of REAL issues which it brings to light.”

    This is no excuse, and barely coherent. The same thing could be claimed for a rape simulator or game all about kidnapping and torturing children.

    “Your ignoring my point about the game. It takes existing social issues and forces us to face them, and see them in our daily lives.”

    Once again, I’m not ignoring ANYTHING. I’m rejecting it, which I explained above.

    “You simply throw around “shock value” like its a cheap marking tactic and sure it is but it also has more positive effects than you refuse to accept.”

    So you claim. But I’ve no reason to believe that.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    Either there’s a disconnect or you don’t acknowledge what I’m saying. I never said gta5 had to change the laws, and I don’t give a flipping shit if its satire.

    What I’m saying is that it had a positive social impact but caus of the discussion it created. You have yet to even mention anything

    This is why the comedy is justified, while it doesn’t give you a thesis as to why the thousand issues it covers are bad, it does throw these issues in societies face instead of creating a realistic world that ignores them.

    Just because content makes you uncomfortable doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be in the game. Its a cultural norm to not censor art, often people forget about the value of uncensored art when it comes to stand-up or videogames.

    http://theawesomer.com/photos/2011/03/030111_pawel_kuczynski_6.jpg

    Copy that into your URL bar and tell me it makes its point more clearly than gta5. It doesn’t, and yet you’d probably consider it more satirical. True?

  • Vic 2.0

    “Either there’s a disconnect or you don’t acknowledge what I’m saying.”
    Yet again, I’m acknowledging EVERY argument you make; I’m just not AGREEING with all of it (and I’ve explained why).

    “I never said gta5 had to change the laws,”

    Neither did I. But you’re arguing that it’s had some positive effect and I’m calling that claim into question. Without making a statement, all it’s APPARENT GTA 5 is doing or even trying to do is making fun of shit. It’s the fans of the game who keep insisting it’s satire or in your case that it confronts real-life issues in some meaningful or helpful way. And I see no reason to believe this!

    “and I don’t give a flipping shit if its satire.”

    I wouldn’t either, if it weren’t for sooooo many fans of the game trying to justify the obscene attempts at comedy by throwing that word around. Same for the “realism!” argument. A game can be realistic or not; I don’t care. But if people are going to use “realism” to justify the cops being so difficult, I’m going to call that into question because I see many reasons to think they WEREN’T actually going for realism.

    “What I’m saying is that it had a positive social impact but caus of the discussion it created. You have yet to even mention anything”

    I don’t know what you mean by “You have yet to even mention anything”, but even assuming that GTA 5 did in fact “create discussions”, what makes you so sure any of them were productive discussions? And how does it justify the brand of comedy they used? I mean, would it or would it not be more effective to still bring up these issues but in a way directs people to take the issue seriously, educates them, etc.? The more we talk about this, the more I’m convinced that you’re only HOPING the conversations inspired by GTA 5 have more often ended the right way (that it’s done more good than harm) but you don’t actually know that. None of us do. What I’m criticizing is the content of the game, without making any kind of assumption either way.

    “Just because content makes you uncomfortable doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be in the game. Its a cultural norm to not censor art, often people forget about the value of uncensored art when it comes to stand-up or videogames.”

    I’m not calling for censorship, nor did I imply that anything which makes people uncomfortable should be cut. But it doesn’t mean we can’t criticize it, especially if we think it’s not really adding anything to the game itself OR helping the world in any way.

    And a single image cannot be compared to a video game, primarily because video games are first and foremost meant as a medium for ENTERTAINMENT, whereas an image could be about anything. Ask yourself what entertainment can be had with that image, or if it’s particularly beautiful. One can deduce that there is a message they’re trying to make (which I do agree with you is a bit hard to extract and therefore it’s POOR satire but more apparently satire nonetheless). But GTA has always just tried to entertain us and shock us. We’ve no reason to start attaching the label of “satire” to everything out of nowhere. Maybe you haven’t followed the series for as long as I have, but no one with any credibility would argue that GTA 3 was satire. It was very clearly just humor through and through. But now fans have gotten a little better at defending their favorite video game franchise and thus claims that 5 is satire abound.

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    You make a good point, and while you haven’t changed my mind you certainly won this argument. You made some really good points, its unfortunate you didn’t enjoy the game as much as other people :(. On the bright side just cause 3 will be coming, and i’m sure were both looking forward to that!

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    Sorry if it seemed i just dismissed the argument, the truth is
    I dislike arguing over things like public opinion because its so view and opinion based, as well as a very complicated subject.

  • Vic 2.0

    Indeed. I’m skeptical about Just Cause 3 as well (because I feel like every franchise is destined to go south but that’s just me). I wonder if it’s going to pull an Ubisoft and keep bugging us about getting online and such, be like EA and hit us up for more and more money, or just do something dumb like make it so you have to BUY parachutes rather than always have an infinite amount…

  • Micah barnhill-wright

    Fingers Crossed they stick to the same formula. Word is they’re going to focus on more detailed interior sections. Hopefully the game play will be improved upon to match that.

  • Guest

    This website sucks ass.

  • Vic 2.0

    GTA fanboy, I take it?

  • scoobert

    do you live on this article

  • Vic 2.0

    I live in a house. But sometimes I have waaaaayy too much time on my hands. No really, it’s true!

  • scoobert

    and why is this personal review absolute truth all of a sudden? there are some fanboy’s here, but you’re still going out of your way to attack everyone who disagrees with you. you’ve promoted Just Cause 2 four or five times by now, some others may not like it. are you going to go into a few more paragraphs as to why they’re idiots and they’re wrong too? jfc

  • Vic 2.0

    “and why is this personal review absolute truth all of a sudden?”

    I think the author *elaborated* on why it was true. But to discuss any part of it, one of you (you or the OP) might want to specify what you disagree with, and we can go from there.

    “there are some fanboy’s here, but you’re still going out of your way to attack everyone who disagrees with you.”

    Attacking? Noooo. Well maybe if they themselves set the tone. Not everyone who disagrees with you is “attacking” you…

    “you’ve promoted Just Cause 2 four or five times by now, some others may not like it. are you going to go into a few more paragraphs as to why they’re idiots and they’re wrong too? jfc, leave it alone”

    Hi. This is a comment section, *created* for people to have discussions within. You seem to be suggesting that people not have these discussions (because that is ultimately what just saying “Yeah, to each his own” will lead to). I suggest Just Cause 2 because it’s A. the cleanest game in this genre that I know of (which is relevant to the article), and B. more fun than GTA 5 anyway. It’s a win-win. I don’t like just talking about the problem, but the solution as well.

    I wouldn’t call someone an idiot just for not liking the games I like. But I might call them an idiot depending on *why* they don’t like it, because there are stupid reasons to be for or against pretty much anything.

  • Brian Blair

    Oh for “beep” sake! I am so sick of this moral high ground BS already! Is this insane satire of morals not old yet? Of’course it is a bad game for a 12yo kid you friggin idiot! That is why the game is only for adults numb nuts! YOU CAN”T BUY IT UNLESS YOU ARE 18 IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But idiots like you just hate these types of games, because either you can’t afford nice gaming rigs, or you are too stupid to understand how to use simple tech! Because of idiots like you! I have to constantly defend Christianity from the other groups of moral high ground idiots! Why don’t all you moral high ground idiots just join up and leave Christianity alone! With your constant hypocrisy! You are not real Christians! All you do is give other hate groups more matériel to use against real Christians! “For with what judgment ye judge, Ye shall be judged.” Yet you are always doing it!

  • Vic 2.0

    All I see is a bunch of emotionally charged insults. What exactly did you disagree with, in the article? Sad truth is, that kids are going to end up playing or at least watching a lot of the content in this game. And ratings sometimes don’t even mean shit. Even I, just a few years ago, might’ve assumed GTA 5 was no worse than OTHER games with the same rating, and boy would I have been wrong! Consider that Just Cause 2 has far fewer cuss words (only one I even remember is “damn”), no nudity, no torture missions, no prostitutes you can hire or drugs you can take, and is the exact same rating as GTA 5. The system isn’t flawless, is my point, and everyone knows that.

    And you just plain lost me, on Christianity. How are you defending Christianity, and how is the writer attacking it?

  • Xavier Clinton

    The game roks there are naked ladies sex is intense and killing ballad is fun

  • Vic 2.0

    “My first point is that they failed to improve upon it in gta4 but they did improve upon it in gta5.”

    I was talking about the girlfriend idea. They failed to improve on this in BOTH games, because in 4 all they did was replace the girls with a guy, and in 5 they just gave up on it. Removing a good idea that could work (if Rockstar’s gameplay department wasn’t so lazy) is not an improvement.

    “The police only make up part of the game play,”

    They are a very *central* part, however. And so it’s not acceptable that the cops are overly aggressive, psychic marksmen. Even a lot of GTA 5 fans agree that the cop system is broken. Take a look at this thread, for example:
    http://gtaforums.com/topic/606578-discussion-gta-v-police-too-easy-too-hard-just-right/

    “I would agree the game need difficulty adjustment, i would have enjoyed it far less if the police were easier to escape (like in JC2), but I also see how many people disagree with this.”

    It’s not very easy at all to escape the enemy soldiers in JC2, especially if you raise the difficulty. But the point is, “difficulty level” isn’t the issue. Cops that start trying to kill you for bumping into someone on the sidewalk are not challenging – they’re broken.

    “Gta 5’s characters are dynamic, they have personality, and are all interesting. Alot of people agree with me and alot of people saw this, but i think you missed it because you didnt enjoy the gameplay.”

    None of this makes it a good story. Because all they do anyway is stand around and yell curse words at each other and never get anywhere. The supporting characters are all morons (Yeah yeah, it’s supposed to be funny, I get it) but they don’t ever get straightened out, and then the protagonists are all miserable with different degrees of awareness of that. This is not good writing! A character arc of some kind – ANY kind – would’ve been nice.

    “It is an action game, its cinematography with graphics, cut scenes, and music is amazing but it IS an action game.”

    I never disputed that.

    “Gta5 doesnt try to be “dramatic” in the way you describe it it, what it tries to do is combine as meaningful a storyline with really good gameplay and missions. In that regard id say it is successful.”

    Well we’re bound to disagree on the gameplay. I thought it was acceptable, at best. I don’t know how you think I’m meaning the word “dramatic”, if not the way I elaborated on it in my last post. I’m talking about the story’s delivery in the beginning versus how it devolved into shouting matches but never a breakthrough. For example, a scene in which Trevor and Michael finally come to blows would’ve been interesting. It would’ve made me at least a little invested in their dispute. Instead they just shouted at each other and did the next mission, and then repeated. And Franklin had the same sort of thing going on, only he was getting yelled at by his “homie” which was even more boring.

    “Just out of curiosity what games would you say have “good” stories? Indie titles are fine, but that’s easy and im more interested in large releases with good story line. (and don’t say JC2 :P)”

    Far Cry 3, Final Fantasys 7 and 8, and Assassin’s Creed 2 to name a few. And it’s because they had character arcs and didn’t depress me. And no, I wouldn’t say JC2 because it wasn’t even trying to have a story. They spent most of their effort on making the game FUN 😛

  • Vic 2.0

    Anything gameplay-related to make it “rock”? You know… considering that we’re talking about a video game and not a pornographic magazine?

  • António Rui Carvalho

    Hey everyone.

    I too can’t help but feel a bit disapointed with GTA V. I’ve played all GTA games ever released to the PC platform, and I honestly think no GTA will ever be as awesome as Vice City. Don’t get me wrong, that didn’t stop me from enjoying San Andreas, GTA IV and its two additional episodes. However, the same can’t be said about V. I find something wrong with the game, not sure what exactly. Perhaps the story and its content is too shallow? Perhaps the fact that you have loads of stuff to do amongst activities, hobbies, past-times, random events, etcetera, and none of it is specially rewarding? Perhaps because more than half of the story missions look like filler material? Maybe it’s the combination of all that, and adding to it the fact that I’m a >30 year old gamer with way too many hours spent playing video games, who can hardly be surprised nowadays.

    Amongst other things, I’m glad to see more people noticed the overuse of the “N” word. I don’t find that offensive, not at all, “dawg”. I just find that incredibly repetitive to the point of being annoying. My favourite character is actually Franklin, because he seems to be the more mentally balanced of the trio, but I can’t help but sigh when I go out on a mission with his “nigga” friend Lamar. God, I just wish they spoke less during the car trip.

    Maybe most of you will find this ridiculous, but I’d like to mention the GPS system. Introduced, if my memory serves me well, in GTA IV. It’s a priceless feature. However, it contributes to deviate your attention from the road, and I’m actually more focused on the G*ddamned minimap than on the breathtaking scenario. “Yeah, just turn it off in the options Newb!”. Well, I’ll be damned, no sh*t. Problem is, the map and the roads are so intricate and complicated, mostly in Los Santos downtown area, that you’re actually screwed if you turn the damned thing off. I knew by heart the city map in GTA III, Vice City, San Andreas, hell, even in GTA IV. I have no problem memorizing big maps, but Los Santos is way too intricate for me to understand. I’ve been playing the game for two weeks, and I still can’t navigate the city with ease. Those nodes in downtown and the tunnels, and the overpasses and whatever just kill me, I have to use the GPS. Sometimes I miss a turn because I’m trying not to hit the vehicle in front of me, but whatever, just turn around and avoid frontal collisions.

    Basically that’s that, I was expecting a greatly rewarding experience with this game, and my expectations weren’t met. So I googled “I didn’t like GTA V”, and here I am.

    Cheers to all.

  • Xavier Clinton

    I was not talking about porn I was talking about how killing ballas is fun and you who called that person a bitch not cool I bet u don’t even know her anyway the reason u keep dying every 5 minutes is cause you are not going under the cable car tunnel on strawberry near barber shop just go under for 3 minutes even on 5 star you can get away with any crime.download ifruit and game updates to make killing more fun. God,Jesus and video games don’t mix,God is not even real and I can’t concentrate if I have to think of multiple unreal beings.who cares what a fictional old man in the sky thinks I only care what I think and I think we should not be worrying about going to heaven or hell we should enjoy living in the present and not dread the future.

  • Vic 2.0

    While I share your atheism (well, sort of – you seem to be claiming that you *know* there isn’t a god, whereas I simply lack the belief in one), I have to agree with the general message of the article. GTA is constantly trying to shock its players, and rarely trying to innovate the gameplay in any meaningful way. There’s edgy and then there’s desperately trying to retain the image that you’re “cool”. I think Rockstar is the latter, sorry.

  • Xavier Clinton

    Vic 2.0 its okay if you sort of or don’t agree with me.

  • Vic 2.0

    Yeah. I know.

  • Eternaldevastation666

    “MOMMEH SOMEONE DOESN’T AGREE WITH ME ON THE INTERNET!! WAAHHH”
    That’s how you sound.

  • Eternaldevastation666

    That depends on where in the internet you go.. trust me, there are people who are that self-righteous.

  • Vic 2.0

    What’s interesting is there used to be a whole bunch of people (including myself) criticizing his reply but somehow they vanished. But anyway, thanks for coming in with that. I agree. It looks like a temper tantrum in word form.

  • svfoxhotmail

    morons running around killing each other

    sam
    http://www.scrabblecheat.com

  • William Andrews

    Games do not need to “make you a better person”.
    Example: Sonic and Mario.

  • Vic 2.0

    You may be taking it too literally, but that’s OK because the other person is being nice to the point of being unclear. The question is really, “Could it possibly make you WORSE in some way?” Ultimately, video games in general might improve certain cognitive functions, but what ELSE might they change? Or are we wanting to believe the influence can only be positive and never negative?

  • Danavan Pryce

    um…..gamechurch…..ok thats what drew me to this review u said in ur first paragraph that you would review games from a christian’s perspective but all i read was just any normal review….i dont see whats the christian views about this game….to me you were just beating around the bushes….if ur gonna do reviews through the christian’s perspective…..be hardcore bring in scripture convict me or rebuke me whatever it is, but let me when am finish reading ur review i can say ‘ok this reviews different’….so misleading.

  • Vic 2.0

    What a unique comment…

  • dolphins

    so true, such a grossly over rated game

  • Xavier Clinton

    Keep in mind the Los Santos portion of the Ifruit app only works to the fullest in offline mode u can’t order wheels online but you can offline. You have to pay with in game money not real money. The Ifruit app is free to download from the app store and is compatible with IPhone,iOS,Android,and Windows phones.to stop those annoying alerts to take care of chop just disable notifications.

  • disqus_fyy1HxoUzu

    im playing gta 4 . .

  • disqus_fyy1HxoUzu

    im playing gta 4 .

  • Akemi Akamatsu

    this game has a lot of contents against men too, men are portrayed as criminals, scums, maniacs, pimps, drug dealers, a$$holes, etc..

    I am a girl but still find this fine because this game portrays the real world ,if you want a game like an utopia then please don’t go out too because real world is more violent and horrific than this game. beside playing this game can have an idea about the real world and how to behave in a way that we can secure ourselves. is this game misogynistic? nope, it’s just being real. so get over from it.

  • Akemi Akamatsu

    this game has a lot of contents against men too, men are portrayed as criminals, scums, maniacs, pimps, drug dealers, a$$holes, etc..

    I am a girl but still find this fine because this game portrays the real world ,if you want a game like an utopia then please don’t go out too because real world is more violent and horrific than this game. beside playing this game can have an idea about the real world and how to behave in a way that we can secure ourselves. is this game misogynistic? nope, it’s just being real. so get over from it.

  • Vic 2.0

    “Just being real” doesn’t excuse anyone of anything. But along the lines of women vs. men, don’t you find it strange that women are almost never respectable not even for a split second, in GTA games, while the men (though some of them are painted as fools) tend to have redeeming qualities? Competence, if nothing else? You defend them by claiming they’re just showing the real world, but I’m quite certain women are at least right AS often as men in the real world. So why isn’t this depicted in GTA?

    And in general, no game in which you can flip your car over without even getting out of the damn thing is trying all that hard to be “realistic”.

  • Vic 2.0

    “Just being real” doesn’t excuse anyone of anything. But, along the lines of women vs. men, don’t you find it strange that women are almost never respectable not even for a split second, in GTA games, while the men (though some of them are painted as fools) tend to have redeeming qualities? Competence, if nothing else? You defend them by claiming they’re just showing the real world, but I’m quite certain women are at least right AS often as men in the real world. So why isn’t this depicted in GTA?

    And in general, no game in which you can flip your car over without even getting out of the damn thing is trying all that hard to be “realistic”.

  • Akemi Akamatsu

    they don’t have to excuse anyone , people get hurt all the time and if someone doesn’t like something they should learn to move on than trying to change it, beside in virtual world no one gets hurt so why would someone deeply cares what happens in there?. maybe you should worry about real world than virtual world. your 12 years old daughter or sister might have a secret date with a 20 years old guy tonight so you should worry about it than a video game.

    gta universe is darker and negative so if you expect political correctness in that universe then you are in the wrong place.
    ” I’m quite certain women are at least right AS often as men in the real world. So why isn’t this depicted in GTA?” why it should even be in gta v?

    I don’t understand what’s your point? rockstar made a game they want ,it’s all their ideas ,their creation, their art and why would you want to change it because you are not happy? it’s like you are going to change da vinci’s arts because it doesn’t fulfil your taste.

    It might not be 100% realistic but it’s realistic to some degree.

    I am happy with gta v ,it’s a beautiful world ,so many things to do ,the only thing I worry is not having a female playable character in story mode and a lot of cheaters in online.

  • Vic 2.0

    “they don’t have to excuse anyone , people get hurt all the time and if someone doesn’t like something they should learn to move on than trying to change it, beside in virtual world no one gets hurt so why would someone deeply cares what happens in there?”

    It’s not a question of what happens to the fictional characters in the game; it’s a question of what message is being sent by the non-fictional developers OF it. Which is a perfectly legitimate question, considering the difference between how men are depicted and how women are depicted in the games overall.

    “maybe you should worry about real world than virtual world. your 12 years old daughter or sister might have a secret date with a 20 years old guy tonight so you should worry about it than a video game.”

    These things are not mutually exclusive. And part of being a good parent is determining what types of media they should be exposed to while they’re growing up, so as to nip attitudes like “Sex is not that big a deal” in the bud BEFORE our daughters make it to 12+ years of age.

    “gta universe is darker and negative so if you expect political correctness in that universe then you are in the wrong place.”

    No, we expect game developers (yes, even the almighty Rockstar) to be held accountable for what they put in their games, particularly when there is really no call for it.

    ME: “I’m quite certain women are at least right AS often as men in the real world. So why isn’t this depicted in GTA?”
    YOU: “why it should even be in gta v?”

    Because you just finished trying to defend GTA 5 on the basis of it “just being real”. When it departs from realism (in canon, not just gameplay) so blatantly, you can’t use that excuse anymore.

    “I don’t understand what’s your point? rockstar made a game they want ,it’s all their ideas ,their creation, their art and why would you want to change it because you are not happy? it’s like you are going to change da vinci’s arts because it doesn’t fulfil your taste.”

    I tend to disagree that video games are art, and that’s because it’s created with pleasing the customer in mind. True art is just made as an expression of the artist, with little to no concern of what people will think while it’s being made. By contrast, game developers make a game and they have to follow countless rules to make sure it works properly, make sure it’s “fun”, make sure people won’t criticize it for this or that, etc.

    It’s fine if you like the game. As a game, I think it’s okay, but I don’t feel comfortable supporting a company that actually put the line “cum on my face” in their product. Not to mention the torture scene. That’s just me.

  • Akemi Akamatsu

    ” it’s a question of what message is being sent by the non-fictional developers OF it. ” they don’t send a message. video game is just an art to express the creator’s imagination and if you get it in a wrong way it’s your fault not the artist fault.

    “considering the difference between how men are depicted and how women are depicted in the games overall.” men are depicted in a worst way and women are depicted in the same way, there is no different. when men are portrayed as assholes, scums, criminals women are portrayed as sluts, dumb, whores ,so you can’t find a great character in gta series.

    I remember there was a scene in gta iv expansion pack where this guy was completely naked but none of gta game has full frontal female nudity and in gta series most of criminals are men, most of assholes are men ,almost all bad characters are men. there are like street hookers in gta universe but there are street hookers in real world too. so I don’t get how gta series is misogynist.

    “No, we expect game developers (yes, even the almighty Rockstar) to be held accountable for what they put in their games, particularly when there is really no call for it.” can’t agree. it’s a matured game not for children so rockstar expects people to be matured enough to understand the contents.

    “ME: “I’m quite certain women are at least right AS often as men in the real world. So why isn’t this depicted in GTA?””

    why it should even be in gta v? you don’t get the entire thing, video games DON’T HAVE TO BE politically correct, because it doesn’t harm anyone in real world unless you purposely play it to be hurt.

    “It’s fine if you like the game. As a game, I think it’s okay, but I don’t feel comfortable supporting a company that actually put the line “cum on my face” in their product. Not to mention the torture scene. That’s just me.” yeah it’s your free will, and in the same way rockstar has a freewill, if you don’t like gta then move on because there are many people who like it and gta has many things to do not just strip clubs and hookers ,I never go to strip clubs unless it’s related to a mission , you don’t have a right to organize people and harass rockstar in a way that violate their freewill ,I have seen that happens a lot and because of this reason many developers have to change their game.

    the issue of you and many people is you people get offended so easily for everything ,like little babies always ready to cry for something and then sue, bully and harass until you get whatever you want instead of ignoring the thing that bothers.I don’t like homosexuality and don’t even support it but I played ballad of gay tony and even went to the hercules bar a couple of times and enjoyed a lot and I really liked that game. so that’s the different between you and me. as long as people in real world are safe that’s all I care, I don’t have time to worry about pixelated people.

  • Vic 2.0

    “they don’t send a message. video game is just an art to express the creator’s imagination and if you get it in a wrong way it’s your fault not the artist fault.”

    Nonsense. There has to be a reason for the way they portray women as compared to men, as well as the other decisions they made. It does NOT boil down to “just art”, as I explained later in the comment.

    “men are depicted in a worst way and women are depicted in the same way, there is no different.”

    Of course there is. And since the last time I spelled it out you just dismissed it by saying “They don’t have to explain themselves!”, I’ll just re-post it here:
    Don’t you find it strange that women are almost never respectable not even for a split second, in GTA games, while the men (though some of them are painted as fools) tend to have redeeming qualities? Competence, if nothing else? You defend them by claiming they’re just showing the real world, but I’m quite certain women are at least right AS often as men in the real world. So why isn’t this depicted in GTA?

    “when men are portrayed as assholes, scums, criminals women are portrayed as sluts, dumb, whores ,so you can’t find a great character in gta series.”
    Those “assholes, scums, and criminals” tend to at least have their mental faculties in check. They get stuff done! They are successful if immoral. The women on the other hand? They’re just there to make the men in GTA 5 happy, if not sexually then just by way of being disrespected by these men. How can you deny that?

    ME: “No, we expect game developers (yes, even the almighty Rockstar) to be held accountable for what they put in their games, particularly when there is really no call for it.”
    YOU: “can’t agree.”

    With what part? You think there IS a need for all that junk?

    “it’s a matured game not for children so rockstar expects people to be matured enough to understand the contents.”

    First off, it’s “mature” without the ‘d’. Second, it’s always been humorous how people use the word “mature” when referring to decidely IMMATURE content (without the ‘s’). They seem to have you fooled. But no, no full-grown man who is truly mature will be getting a kick out of most of the “comedy” in GTA 5, sorry. You want to know who will find “cum on my face” funny? Perverts and children/teenagers. End of list.

    “video games DON’T HAVE TO BE politically correct,”

    It’s not about “political correctness”. I’m blasting it solely on the basis of ORDINARY correctness. Even if I personally HATED women, but I was a stickler for the facts, I’d be wondering why the females in this game are pretty much all stupid while most of the men at least have brains.

    “yeah it’s your free will, and in the same way rockstar has a freewill, if you don’t like gta then move on”

    That’s not what having “free will” (or freedom) means. It means that Rockstar is more than free to make their ignorant little games, and I am more than free to blast them for it.

    Yeah, there’s a lot to do in GTA 5. Personally, I think about 1% of it is actually fun more than once. It’s like the Dollar Store. Oh they have EVERYTHING, but… you can’t expect any of it to be the best quality…

    “the issue of you and many people is you people get offended so easily for everything”

    Actually, no. I have many M-rated games; I think that puts me in the clear. But you have to draw the line somewhere, my friend. My question to you is, Where do YOU draw the line, and why?

  • Akemi Akamatsu

    “Nonsense. There has to be a reason for the way they portray women as compared to men, ” in tomb raider they portray lara croft as strong and agile but all other men are weak compared with her and they always get beaten by lara at end, and in attack of titans they portray mikasa as strong female character but the main character as a weak one so women ain’t made worse in GTA V because of sexism, it’s just a story, it’s all in your mind, you saw there are hookers and strippers in gta so you automatically think it’s sexism without a clue. but you don’t care when men are portrayed as worse. I bet you are a insecure female.

  • Vic 2.0

    ME: “Nonsense. There has to be a reason for the way they portray women as compared to men”
    YOU: “in tomb raider they portray lara croft as strong and agile but all other men are weak compared with her and they always get beaten by lara at end, and in attack of titans they portray mikasa as strong female character but the main character as a weak one so women ain’t made worse in GTA V because of sexism”

    I wouldn’t know about the other games you mention. But I’ve followed GTA since day one (GTA 5’s now sub-par gameplay has convinced me to stop, however), and game after game it’s the same formula I described to you already: men are often competent while women are usually just there to please the men. Yes, I DO think there has to be a reason for it, particularly if the franchise’s defenders are correct in saying “It’s just satire” or “They’re just being real”. If it is anything along those lines, then it’s apparent they either purposefully portray women as inferior to men or accidentally do this (game after game after game). Logically, the former is more likely.

    “it’s all in your mind, you saw there are hookers and strippers in gta so you automatically think it’s sexism without a clue.”

    BS. My argument is far more solid than that. You are just trying to employ the stereotype of GTA-haters at this point. It is not simply a matter of “Filth! GTA is the devil!” for a lot of us. It’s the kind of filth, the degree of it, the way it seems to favor one sex (or one race) over another, and in general the incessant attempts at “shock value” that make me agree that GTA 5 is a bad game. Both ethically and as a video game (story, gameplay, etc.)

    “but you don’t care when men are portrayed as worse. I bet you are a insecure female.”

    Nope, I am a very secure grown man, but thanks for proving my point about the employment of stereotypes! And it’s not an issue of “better” vs. “worse”, as I said before. I’m not even blasting it for a lack of political correctness, just correctness in general!

  • Akemi Akamatsu

    gta v isn’t sexist at all, I am playing it nowadays and I don’t find it as sexist at all. it’s being so realistic I would say. strong men are like muscular unlike lara croft who is so skinny but beat muscular men so easily. father protects the family, father loves children, wife is scared what if something happened to her husband etc.. so realistic I would say. skinny women beating men, children beating men, lgbt propaganda are everywhere they are actually nonsenses.

  • Vic 2.0

    Why’d you come back only to make the same assertion over again, despite the conversation we just had after you originally made it? No, it is NOT being “realistic” when it keeps portraying women as mostly stupid and incompetent and men as mostly smart and competent (though immoral). And yes, that is grounds for calling GTA 5 misogynistic. As for all the other stuff, I don’t see how it’s relevant, sorry.

  • Akemi Akamatsu

    keep calling gta 5 misogynistic because of your hatred won’t actually make it misogynistic.
    I finished gta v yesterday and found the game is quite entertaining and appealing though I found it’s a bit shorter than sand andreas it’s still nice. there are no misogynistic contents in gta v according to my judgement.

    like old says beauty is in the eye of the beholder some people might always find something to whine anyway to make something negative as misogynistic we have to actually find out what the developers intend to do with the contents and why they actually put them in the game and for what purpose. some game developers can put arabs as terrorists in a game because they actually hate arabs and some might want to put some arabs in the game as terrorists because there are well known arabic terrorist groups and they don’t intend to hurt the rest of good arabs. but some insecure people might find it’s racist. so the action might be same the intention might be different and the intention makes something good or bad.

    let’s take those contents that you refer as misogynistic and then try to understand why they are there. hookers ? hookers are in streets specially in US and some of western countries and GTA V is based on a popular west coast city so hookers are quite prevalent and if they are not hookers then it’s obviously unrealistic. developers never force players to play with hookers so I never had to involve with them but I encountered multiple instances how developers force us to torture some men so it’s more like more misandristic than misogynistic in a way but I don’t go for that level.

    strippers? there is only one strip club in the game though there are many gun shops. strip club might objectify women but most of women become strippers by their own will ,so they make themselves objects but then again it’s subjective, some people might find it a way to glorify the sexuality, some people might find it as another career, some people might it as a sexual freedom because you can’t dance like that in a country like Saudi.

    there are strip clubs in US ? so why they shouldn’t be in the game? beside it doesn’t force people to involve with strippers. there are some missions in the strip club but you don’t have to play with strippers. so it never bothered me.

    Women in bikinis? there are beaches in sand andreas so you want women to be in burkas?
    if you want women to be in burkas then that’s called misogynistic.

    Horrific death of Molly? Molly is dumb ,she ran in front of a jet engine ,so it sucked her into the engine and killed her, it’s an accident. as I remember there ain’t any mission to kill women in the game but only men.

    so how come GTA V is misogynistic? it’s not misogynistic at all, there are male victims and female victims ,there are female antagonists and male antagonists. there is female nudity and male nudity though I never seen a female vagina in the gta v you can see the full male genital.

    so how come GTA V is misogynistic? It’s NOT. so stop portraying women as victims always.

  • Vic 2.0

    “keep calling gta 5 misogynistic because of your hatred won’t actually make it misogynistic.”
    First off, where do you get “hatred” from? Who am I hating? Second, I gave specific ARGUMENTS for why it’s portraying women in both a negative and unrealistic light. I didn’t just assert it, as you seem to be implying now.

    “there are no misogynistic contents in gta v according to my judgement.”
    That’s because you conveniently brush it aside when it’s pointed out to you.

    “like old says beauty is in the eye of the beholder”
    Irrelevant. I might have even been a FAN of the game, but would still admit it portrays women unfairly.

    “some people might always find something to whine anyway”
    Also irrelevant.

    “to make something negative as misogynistic we have to actually find out what the developers intend to do with the contents and why they actually put them in the game and for what purpose.”
    Or we could use our BRAINS and that will tell us plenty, also.

    From this point on, you pick apart the many examples of women being stupid (hookers, strippers, etc.) but avoid the overall point. It isn’t that there are hookers and strippers in the game. It’s that the vast majority of women in GTA games in general are incompetent, idiotic, annoying, etc. whereas a far more healthy fraction of the men are at least not these things! And I’m not just talking about the protagonists, but the antagonists and those that work WITH the protagonists as well. It isn’t hard to find a competent male in GTA games, while it is relatively difficult to find a female character who isn’t some kind of moronic. That’s just the facts, and you’re dancing around them like crazy.

    “as I remember there ain’t any mission to kill women in the game but only men.”
    Well of course not, because according to the GTA universe, women are not frequently smart enough to become a threat!

  • Akemi Akamatsu

    “It’s that the vast majority of women in GTA games in general are incompetent, idiotic, annoying, etc”

    not really molly is a smart woman and she is educated, has a degree and won many cases, she might be dumb at end to run in front of a jet engine but at least she isn’t dumb in her field, Maude Eccles is a boundary hunter and she isn’t dumb, idiotic or annoying and there is this chinese driver you pick on the way to city and you get her help during the last heist mission and there is another woman who is good at hacking and you can have her help during one of first heist mission.
    at first tracey might be bimbo type but at end of the game she goes to college, debra ,though we don’t know what happened to her, she is an educated one too, she isn’t idiotic or incompetent or annoying.

    now tell me how many non incompetent, idiotic, annoying men? only Floyd. rest of all men are thugs, assholes, annoying and dumb.

  • Vic 2.0

    ME: “It’s that the vast majority of women in GTA games in general are incompetent, idiotic, annoying, etc”
    YOU: “not really”

    YES, really! I can’t believe you’re denying that!

    “molly is a smart woman and she is educated, has a degree and won many cases, she might be dumb at end to run in front of a jet engine but at least she isn’t dumb in her field”

    A. I said “the vast majority”, and “in GTA games in general”.

    B. No, you cannot just speed past the jet engine incident. It’s a mark of (what’s supposed to be humorous) incompetence on her part, that everyone else has to be killed but she’s dumb enough to get HERSELF killed. That falls in line with my argument perfectly. She turns out to be no threat at all.

    “Maude Eccles is a boundary hunter and she isn’t dumb, idiotic or annoying”

    But she is intentionally drawn and designed to be “that woman” who is frumpy, unattractive, etc. One might even say she wants to be a man. And she takes testosterone pills, so what else ya got.

    “and there is this chinese driver you pick on the way to city and you get her help during the last heist mission and there is another woman who is good at hacking and you can have her help during one of first heist mission.”

    Fringe characters, not even part of the story. The point is that, comparably, most of the men are competent. The male antagonists are dangerous and will require more than an idiotic act on their part to get rid of them. And the men who work with you tend to know their stuff and how to get stuff done (like that guy who does a lot of the planning, especially with the heists).

    “at first tracey might be bimbo type but at end of the game she goes to college”

    Meanwhile, none of the men even need college to reach that level of “smarter than dirt”.

    “debra ,though we don’t know what happened to her, she is an educated one too, she isn’t idiotic or incompetent or annoying.”

    Are you kidding? Isn’t that the one who freaks out at Trevor all the time? She is a cardboard cut-out of the “nagging bitch” stereotype! And in the sequences with her and Trevor in them, the “funny” part is supposed to be her reaction to Trevor. She is not to be taken seriously by the players of the game; I’m surprised you didn’t notice that.

    “now tell me how many non incompetent, idiotic, annoying men? only Floyd. rest of all men are thugs, assholes,”

    Again, we’re not talking about who’s morally just here.

    “annoying and dumb”

    I find that, of the ones who are supposed to be viewed as annoying and dumb, Lazlow and that guy that Trevor’s always treating poorly are the beginning and end of the list. In terms of antagonists and those who give you missions or aid you in them, however? The vast majority of them are competent and meant to be valued. The vast majority of WOMEN in these games, however? Are not. Now, seriously. Stop denying this!

  • Lloyd Franklin

    GTA IV is still the best game in my opinion, everything about GTA IV was perfect. Niko is the best character Rockstar have ever created.

  • Vic 2.0

    Never played it, but it’s bound to be better than three pitiful egomaniacs yelling curse words at each other all day long and never getting anywhere.

  • Adam Mold

    GTA 4 was better. I couldn’t help noticing the distinct lack of interaction with ‘friends’ when you called them to meet up. They NEVER answer the phone. Not once, unless it was part of the story. I missed calling people to work on friendships, go out for pool – and the payback for those friendships (getting you out of a sticky situation for example) was tangible. Here, the side characters play little or no part and give you no reason to explore the ‘world’ (as vast and beautiful as it is) itself. The story is mediocre and has not even one protagonist I can get behind. Nico was a far superior character in every way as his life experiences meant something and even pulled a heart-string or two. You felt for him. None of the three felons here I feel for. They are all just victims of their own stupidity.

  • Vic 2.0

    Well said.

  • Smokratez

    First you meet Trever he gets mad that a redneck calls a woman bitch, then calls men ladies. He is a feminist and a misandrist.

  • Smokratez

    Did you have any problem with how the men were treated?

  • ViDeO MiX

    you stfu i agree with the people who dont agree

  • ViDeO MiX

    why do people destroy other peoples good feelings aboute the game at the beggining i was wow its a sick game nice but when i read all the negative comments I thought that people are just sad and hate because they never will make a good game in there life and wownt make money of any games like rockstar :) GG GL HF have a awesome life haters and hate more cause i dont think anybody is listening to u guys :)

  • Vic 2.0

    It’s fine that you disagree with something I’ve said. But could you be so kind as to explain what, and maybe even WHY?

  • Vic 2.0

    It’s demonstrably false that “no one’s listening”. You yourself are proof that people ARE. And people are allowed to have an opinion different than your own, you know…

  • Max Kraft

    It saddens me that such great potential (graphics, etc.) was wasted on crime. I’d buy this game (if I used Windows or a console) only for the sake of the rendering engine and whatnot. You don’t necessarily *have* to play the game in a violent manner, you just have the ability to, but you can do so much more. GTA San Andreas (was release for Mac! $14.99 on the Mac App Store) inspired me to start going to the gym, because of the way you can tweak your character in a semi-realistic manner in the game. It inspired me to take walks around town and enjoy the beauty of the world and the awesomeness of God’s creations. Yes, I did fully complete the “game”, and I killed a lot of “people” and I even crashed a plane into an intersection (oops). But all in all, when I got the game, it was never my *intent* to kill people, it just kind of came across to me that I need to go through the story to fully enjoy the game.

    What most people do though.. is atrocious and IMO stupid and wasteful of the potential. An important thing to remember is that violence in the GTA series is an *option*, not a *necessity*. Unless you like the story, in which case go ahead and end virtual lives, since you have that option and you probably live in a country free enough to allow you to play games.

  • Andreas Schmidt

    I can’t but agree wholeheartedly like Vic 2.0.

    Actually I think it’s not being in our thirties … at least it’s not exacly the point.
    If I were eighteen years old I could go on all day picking up collectibles that are actually useless, even to a certain point though.
    The point is GTA5 isn’t proportioned.

    I don’t care about GTA1&2 here, different gameplay, something else.
    From GTA3 you are in a map that even if it is a silly island, it has a good part of America: from the city(ies) to farmlands. The spacings are optimal, you can drive from one city to another in a matter of minutes.
    Here you get to travel 15 minutes from the city to the country. Basically to do what? Almost nothing in fact. You don’t really understand what you have to do with all that space in between.
    In GTA3 you get to explore every part of the map, especially with collectibles because of the very nice reward.
    Also GTA3 has a problem with money, you have a lot of it and you can’t really get to use it.
    San Andreas alleviate this problem with casinos an property to buy, but still you get to the end with a huge load of cash and no use of it.

    Still, GTA 3 / San Andreas is fun.
    And tanks aren’t that nerfed.
    C’mon external fuel tank for tanks????

    GTA 4 and 5 have a huge unproportioned maps with a lot of space frankly a thirty year old like me don’t really possess the desire to explore (it seems its a common modern problem in Rockstar, just take a look to L.A. Noire: you stick into investigation, who cares about cars and the city?). And as you say, activities just don’t add anything to the game.
    Thanks Rockstar I think I can play real tennis with friends or hang out in bars in real life without having fake evenings with imaginary friends.
    What really, but really bothered me, is what they excluded from new games: there was a casino in San Andreas why don’t you leave cash games in GTA 4 and 5 as well?
    Why don’t you add more cash games in gta4&5??
    Why don’t you add more way to spend cash… why and still why?

    Really Rockstar believes stock exchange is fun?
    Frankly, I couldn’t care less. It’s just a way to get the money I need to end the game.

    And oh yes GTA3 was quicker. Prostitutes for example… yeah it’s “funny” (the first time) to see the ride in the car. Sadly in GTA3 they were faster and used to boost health.
    Something in GTA4 and 5 don’t exist: actually your life is quite short if you challenge the law.
    In gta3 the most part of fun was evading the police while shooting. The longer you last the bigger the fun.
    GTA3 was “quicker” in travelling, entering vehicles, using them … it’s not real life we don’t want to put aside “suspension of disbelief” in order to get a game that almost real as reality…

    The final result is a mediocre content and the rest like Vic2.0 says is plain awful.
    In the end I thought I was the problem. But it’s not that, it’s the game the problem, not me.